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Mark T

External


Since: Jan 15, 2008
Posts: 4



(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:45 am
Post subject: Dimension question
Archived from groups: microsoft>public>sqlserver>datawarehouse (more info?)

I asked this question in the MS OLAP and the SQL group but got no
response. I am
hoping somebody will have some answers here.
Thanks in advance
-------------------
HI,

I need to create a dimension that will play off another dimension. For
example: lets say we have branches going into discontinued operations
time to time. What we would like to create is a dimension that will
have the Discontinued status with Year. So something like:
2007 Discontinued
2006 Discontinued
2005 Discontinued

By clicking on each of those members we can effect a 2nd dimension
called Branch which will have its own parent child rollup for example:
United Kingdom
Birmingham
London
USA
New York
Dallas

My question is what is the best way to design this. Thanks for all
your help.

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entaroadun

External


Since: Dec 13, 2007
Posts: 34



(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Dimension question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I'll bite.


* This only works if the Branch dimension isn't a true parent-child
hierarchy. *

You need to modify the Branch dimension by adding a Status attribute.
Each branch must be tagged with: "Active", "2007 Discontinued", "2006
Discontinued"... you get the idea.

Your branch dimension has a regular hierarchy without Status, i.e.
Country > City > Location, that people currently use. Add a new
hierarchy named "Branches by Status" or something, and build this one
as Status > Country > City > Location. If users want to navigate
starting at Status, they use that instead.


If the Branch dimension is a parent-child, then why? Parent-child
isn't a good idea design-wise because you lose context - SSAS doesn't
know that the USA node is a country, and if someone asks you for a
list of countries, you can't give it to them. There's also the small
issue of poor support in SSAS - which we've been grappling with for
almost a decade.

The only time you functionally need a parent-child is if you need
unary operators for rollups. I look forward to the day when unary
operators are available for normal hierarchies.

Otherwise, put in the time to un-ragged your ragged hierarchy. In my
experience, designers are lazy and don't want to do the hard schema
and ETL work to normalize a ragged hierarchy, and reason away their
laziness with the notion that "parent-child is flexible". You lose a
lot for that supposed flexibility.


On Jan 18, 2:45 pm, Mark T wrote:
> I asked this question in the MS OLAP and the SQL group but got no
> response. I am
> hoping somebody will have some answers here.
> Thanks in advance
> -------------------
> HI,
>
> I need to create a dimension that will play off another dimension. For
> example: lets say we have branches going into discontinued operations
> time to time. What we would like to create is a dimension that will
> have the Discontinued status with Year. So something like:
> 2007 Discontinued
> 2006 Discontinued
> 2005 Discontinued
>
> By clicking on each of those members we can effect a 2nd dimension
> called Branch which will have its own parent child rollup for example:
> United Kingdom
> Birmingham
> London
> USA
> New York
> Dallas
>
> My question is what is the best way to design this. Thanks for all
> your help.

 >> Stay informed about: Dimension question 
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Mark T

External


Since: Jan 15, 2008
Posts: 4



(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Dimension question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Jan 18, 1:04 pm, entaroadun wrote:
> I'll bite.
>
> * This only works if the Branch dimension isn't a true parent-child
> hierarchy. *
>
> You need to modify the Branch dimension by adding a Status attribute.
> Each branch must be tagged with: "Active", "2007 Discontinued", "2006
> Discontinued"... you get the idea.
>
> Your branch dimension has a regular hierarchy without Status, i.e.
> Country > City > Location, that people currently use. Add a new
> hierarchy named "Branches by Status" or something, and build this one
> as Status > Country > City > Location. If users want to navigate
> starting at Status, they use that instead.
>
> If the Branch dimension is a parent-child, then why? Parent-child
> isn't a good idea design-wise because you lose context - SSAS doesn't
> know that the USA node is a country, and if someone asks you for a
> list of countries, you can't give it to them. There's also the small
> issue of poor support in SSAS - which we've been grappling with for
> almost a decade.
>
> The only time you functionally need a parent-child is if you need
> unary operators for rollups. I look forward to the day when unary
> operators are available for normal hierarchies.
>
> Otherwise, put in the time to un-ragged your ragged hierarchy. In my
> experience, designers are lazy and don't want to do the hard schema
> and ETL work to normalize a ragged hierarchy, and reason away their
> laziness with the notion that "parent-child is flexible". You lose a
> lot for that supposed flexibility.
>
> On Jan 18, 2:45 pm, Mark T wrote:
>
> > I asked this question in the MS OLAP and the SQL group but got no
> > response. I am
> > hoping somebody will have some answers here.
> > Thanks in advance
> > -------------------
> > HI,
>
> > I need to create a dimension that will play off another dimension. For
> > example: lets say we have branches going into discontinued operations
> > time to time. What we would like to create is a dimension that will
> > have the Discontinued status with Year. So something like:
> > 2007 Discontinued
> > 2006 Discontinued
> > 2005 Discontinued
>
> > By clicking on each of those members we can effect a 2nd dimension
> > called Branch which will have its own parent child rollup for example:
> > United Kingdom
> > Birmingham
> > London
> > USA
> > New York
> > Dallas
>
> > My question is what is the best way to design this. Thanks for all
> > your help.

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, i cant move away from the parent-
child relationship. The issue is all of our branch dimensions are
based on this and at least for now I need to follow the design
methodology that we have in place. So, i dont think this solution
would work... though i wish we didnt have to worry about the parent-
child issue. I did create multiple rollups somewhat similar to what
you defined:
1990 - Total Company
1991 - Total Company
1992 - Total Company
....and so on. These rollups were parent child but you can see the
problem... This list gets too long and cumbersome.
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entaroadun

External


Since: Dec 13, 2007
Posts: 34



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:23 am
Post subject: Re: Dimension question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Doing this isn't so bad... I would highly recommend creating a
separate process in the ETL stream to create it. The key is not
having to maintain a tree yourself, and becoming a separate source
system - always a bad idea for an ETL shop. You should be able to
drop the branch dimension, press Play, and produce a fully finished
final tree.

On Jan 18, 5:54 pm, Mark T wrote:
> On Jan 18, 1:04 pm, entaroadun wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I'll bite.
>
> > * This only works if the Branch dimension isn't a true parent-child
> > hierarchy. *
>
> > You need to modify the Branch dimension by adding a Status attribute.
> > Each branch must be tagged with:  "Active", "2007 Discontinued", "2006
> > Discontinued"...  you get the idea.
>
> > Your branch dimension has a regular hierarchy without Status, i.e.
> > Country > City > Location, that people currently use.  Add a new
> > hierarchy named "Branches by Status" or something, and build this one
> > as Status > Country > City > Location.  If users want to navigate
> > starting at Status, they use that instead.
>
> > If the Branch dimension is a parent-child, then why?  Parent-child
> > isn't a good idea design-wise because you lose context - SSAS doesn't
> > know that the USA node is a country, and if someone asks you for a
> > list of countries, you can't give it to them.  There's also the small
> > issue of poor support in SSAS - which we've been grappling with for
> > almost a decade.
>
> > The only time you functionally need a parent-child is if you need
> > unary operators for rollups.  I look forward to the day when unary
> > operators are available for normal hierarchies.
>
> > Otherwise, put in the time to un-ragged your ragged hierarchy.  In my
> > experience, designers are lazy and don't want to do the hard schema
> > and ETL work to normalize a ragged hierarchy, and reason away their
> > laziness with the notion that "parent-child is flexible".  You lose a
> > lot for that supposed flexibility.
>
> > On Jan 18, 2:45 pm, Mark T wrote:
>
> > > I asked this question in the MS OLAP and the SQL group but got no
> > > response. I am
> > > hoping somebody will have some answers here.
> > > Thanks in advance
> > > -------------------
> > > HI,
>
> > > I need to create a dimension that will play off another dimension. For
> > > example: lets say we have branches going into discontinued operations
> > > time to time. What we would like to create is a dimension that will
> > > have the Discontinued status with Year. So something  like:
> > >  2007 Discontinued
> > >  2006 Discontinued
> > >  2005 Discontinued
>
> > > By clicking on each of those members we can effect a 2nd dimension
> > > called Branch which will have its own parent child rollup for example:
> > > United Kingdom
> > >   Birmingham
> > >   London
> > > USA
> > >   New York
> > >   Dallas
>
> > > My question is what is the best way to design this. Thanks for all
> > > your help.
>
> Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, i cant move away from the parent-
> child relationship. The issue is all of our branch dimensions are
> based on this and at least for now I need to follow the design
> methodology that we have in place. So, i dont think this solution
> would work... though i wish we didnt have to worry about the parent-
> child issue. I did create multiple rollups somewhat similar to what
> you defined:
> 1990 - Total Company
> 1991 - Total Company
> 1992 - Total Company
> ...and so on. These rollups were parent child but you can see the
> problem... This list gets too long and cumbersome.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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