How to Create a Backup Site ?

On Aug 20, 2008, at 10:14 AM, Gerard Schoorl wrote:

> HVR already supports log-based capture for Ingres databases.
> Support is from Ingres 2.6, unto and including Ingres 2006 R3.


Thanks for the correction, Gerard; I see I'm a bit behind the times!

Karl



>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: info-ingres-bounces.RemoveThis@kettleriverconsulting.com
> [mailto:info-ingres-bounces@kettleriverconsulting.com] On Behalf Of
> Karl
> & Betty Schendel
> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 3:29 PM
> To: Ingres and related product discussion forum
> Subject: Re: [Info-Ingres] How to Create a Backup Site ?
>
>
> On Aug 20, 2008, at 8:38 AM, thiagomz wrote:
>
>> Hi There,
>>
>> My Boss ask me how to create a Backup site for Ingres Database, I
>> looked
>> at Ingres Documentation and the only solution that I can found was
>> use
>> ingres replicator to whole the database.
>>
>> I ask you guys. There are other ways to do that ?
>>
>
> It depends on a few things, but mainly on whether you need
> the standby to be exact up to the most recent committed transaction,
> or if you can tolerate the standby being a couple minutes out of
> date in the worst case.
>
> If you need a standby that is guaranteed to be always
> exactly in sync with the primary, I think your only
> option right now is replication. You can use the
> traditional Ingres replicator or the HVR product.
> HVR might be easier to set up and keep running.
> I think Ingres Corp is working with Golden Gate on a
> log based replicator, but I don't know any details or
> timeframes.
> ...
 >> Stay informed about: How to Create a Backup Site ? 

HVR already supports log-based capture for Ingres databases.
Support is from Ingres 2.6, unto and including Ingres 2006 R3.

Gerard Schoorl
PSB / High Volume Replication bv
Haaksbergweg 45
1101 BR Amsterdam
The Netherlands
+31 20 312 75 16
http://www.hvr.biz

-----Original Message-----
From: info-ingres-bounces DeleteThis @kettleriverconsulting.com
[mailto:info-ingres-bounces@kettleriverconsulting.com] On Behalf Of Karl
& Betty Schendel
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 3:29 PM
To: Ingres and related product discussion forum
Subject: Re: [Info-Ingres] How to Create a Backup Site ?


On Aug 20, 2008, at 8:38 AM, thiagomz wrote:

> Hi There,
>
> My Boss ask me how to create a Backup site for Ingres Database, I
> looked
> at Ingres Documentation and the only solution that I can found was use
> ingres replicator to whole the database.
>
> I ask you guys. There are other ways to do that ?
>

It depends on a few things, but mainly on whether you need
the standby to be exact up to the most recent committed transaction,
or if you can tolerate the standby being a couple minutes out of
date in the worst case.

If you need a standby that is guaranteed to be always
exactly in sync with the primary, I think your only
option right now is replication. You can use the
traditional Ingres replicator or the HVR product.
HVR might be easier to set up and keep running.
I think Ingres Corp is working with Golden Gate on a
log based replicator, but I don't know any details or
timeframes.

If you can tolerate the standby being possibly a few minutes
out of date, what you can do is set up an exactly identical
Ingres installation on another machine. This installation
has to have the same directory paths as the primary. You then
take checkpoints on the primary and rollforward them on the
standby. Journal files get copied incrementally from primary
to standby, and if the primary fails, the journals are
rolled forward on the backup. (There's an incremental
journal rollforward feature that I think is in ingres2006r3
that makes this much easier. With older versions you have to
be careful to restore the checkpoint snapshot with +c -j,
and only restore the journals if needed since you only get
one shot.) You can use something like rsync to minimize the
data transferred between primary and standby.

With the journal-copy solution, you'll probably want to issue
trace point DM1314 before copying a new journal increment.
DM1314 forces an early journal cycle so that you don't miss
transactions that are sitting in the transaction log, waiting
for the next journal cycle.

Karl

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 >> Stay informed about: How to Create a Backup Site ? 

Guys,

Thank all ! I´ll try that´s possible solutions.

Regargs,

Thiago

thiagomz escreveu:
> Hi There,
>
> My Boss ask me how to create a Backup site for Ingres Database, I looked
> at Ingres Documentation and the only solution that I can found was use
> ingres replicator to whole the database.
>
> I ask you guys. There are other ways to do that ?
>
> There are a way to replicate journal like a Oracle Standby Database ?
>
> Thank you All !!
>
> Regards
>
> Thiago Zerbinato
> Ribeirao Preto, SP
> Brazil
 >> Stay informed about: How to Create a Backup Site ? 

Hi all!
I am running Ingres 2.6 sp5 on a Tru64 box.
My disaster recovery schema, include a periodic copy (about each 20
minutes) of production environment journals to another machine file system.
According to mails below, I want to execute trace point DM1314, just
before copying journal files to remote machine.
Is there any known risk to do this?

Your comments will be appreciated

Regards

Oscar Carlés

Karl & Betty Schendel wrote:
> On Aug 20, 2008, at 8:38 AM, thiagomz wrote:
>
>
>> Hi There,
>>
>> My Boss ask me how to create a Backup site for Ingres Database, I
>> looked
>> at Ingres Documentation and the only solution that I can found was use
>> ingres replicator to whole the database.
>>
>> I ask you guys. There are other ways to do that ?
>>
>>
>
> It depends on a few things, but mainly on whether you need
> the standby to be exact up to the most recent committed transaction,
> or if you can tolerate the standby being a couple minutes out of
> date in the worst case.
>
> If you need a standby that is guaranteed to be always
> exactly in sync with the primary, I think your only
> option right now is replication. You can use the
> traditional Ingres replicator or the HVR product.
> HVR might be easier to set up and keep running.
> I think Ingres Corp is working with Golden Gate on a
> log based replicator, but I don't know any details or
> timeframes.
>
> If you can tolerate the standby being possibly a few minutes
> out of date, what you can do is set up an exactly identical
> Ingres installation on another machine. This installation
> has to have the same directory paths as the primary. You then
> take checkpoints on the primary and rollforward them on the
> standby. Journal files get copied incrementally from primary
> to standby, and if the primary fails, the journals are
> rolled forward on the backup. (There's an incremental
> journal rollforward feature that I think is in ingres2006r3
> that makes this much easier. With older versions you have to
> be careful to restore the checkpoint snapshot with +c -j,
> and only restore the journals if needed since you only get
> one shot.) You can use something like rsync to minimize the
> data transferred between primary and standby.
>
> With the journal-copy solution, you'll probably want to issue
> trace point DM1314 before copying a new journal increment.
> DM1314 forces an early journal cycle so that you don't miss
> transactions that are sitting in the transaction log, waiting
> for the next journal cycle.
>
> Karl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Info-Ingres mailing list
> Info-Ingres DeleteThis @kettleriverconsulting.com
> http://www.kettleriverconsulting.com/mailman/listinfo/info-ingres
>
>


--
Lic. Oscar Carlés Barriocanal
Director de Servicios al Cliente
Íntegra S.R.L.
Telefax: (595 21) 424473 RA
Asunción - Paraguay
 >> Stay informed about: How to Create a Backup Site ? 

On Aug 22, 2008, at 5:43 PM, Oscar Carlés wrote:

> Hi all!
> I am running Ingres 2.6 sp5 on a Tru64 box.
> My disaster recovery schema, include a periodic copy (about each 20
> minutes) of production environment journals to another machine file
> system.
> According to mails below, I want to execute trace point DM1314, just
> before copying journal files to remote machine.
> Is there any known risk to do this?
>

It's safe enough.

I should have added, in order to ensure that the archive cycle has
finished, it is a good idea to wait a few seconds after issuing the
DM1314 trace point (to give the archiver time to notice and wake up),
and then issue logstat -header commands until ARCHIVE no longer
shows in the status. It's quite possible that the cycle will
already be finished, but if you see ARCHIVE in the status then
the archiver is still doing its thing and you need to wait longer.

Another point, it doesn't matter which database you issue the
DM1314 against, it applies to the whole installation.

Karl
 >> Stay informed about: How to Create a Backup Site ? 

thiagomz escreveu:
> Hi There,
>
> My Boss ask me how to create a Backup site for Ingres Database, I looked
> at Ingres Documentation and the only solution that I can found was use
> ingres replicator to whole the database.
>
> I ask you guys. There are other ways to do that ?
>
> There are a way to replicate journal like a Oracle Standby Database ?
>
> Thank you All !!
>
> Regards
>
> Thiago Zerbinato
> Ribeirao Preto, SP
> Brazil

Guys,

Just for information, replies from Ingres Community Forum:

Reply 1
=======

Hi,
It depends what sort of backup site you want. If you need an on-line
'fail-safe' back up site then replication or mirroring is a solution.
HVR replication tool works extremely well with Ingres. If you are
looking for an off-line backup site then wouldn't a good DR strategy of
checkpointing to seperate file systems in conjunction with tape backups
be a solution.

There is a white paper on DR
http://broadspire-louk.navisite.net/...gres-WP-CN.pdf

Regards
Matt

Reply 2
========


Assuming a replicator type solution is acceptable then there are 3
solution; Ingres Replicator (flexible but not too scalable), PSB HVR
(very fast and scalable, but will cost extra money), GoldenGate (also
very fast, good high-end reputation, will cost extra money, still in
alpha/beta testing).

If you want a solution closer to the Oracle backup based live DR to one
read-only copy then you will probably need the incremental rollforward
feature available in Ingres 9.2 (still beta). The current draft of the
release guide documents:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Incremental Rollforwarddb

The incremental rollforwarddb feature allows the journals from a
database to be incrementally applied, as they are generated, to a backup
copy of the database.
This feature can be used to minimize downtime in the event that the
backup database is needed for disaster recovery.
For this feature, two new options are added to the rollforwarddb command:

* -incremental
* -norollback

To use the incremental rollforwarddb feature

* Start the incremental rollforwarddb by issuing the following command:

rollforwarddb dbname +c -j -incremental

* Issue one or more of the following commands to cause
rollforwarddb to discover new journals and apply them.

rollforwarddb dbname -c +j -norollback

The database remains inconsistent and readonly.

* Discover and apply new journals by issuing the following command:

rollforwarddb dbname -c +j -rollback

The incremental rollforwarddb ends, and the database is marked
consistent and updateable.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note that this feature gives you the basis you need to create a disaster
recover scenario, but it is not the whole package. Ingres services are
planning to put together a packaged engagement to set this up in a
supported fashion (in much the same way that the Oracle version
developed), if you are interested inn the completed package contact the
Ingres services organization.
 >> Stay informed about: How to Create a Backup Site ? 

On Aug 25, 2008, at 3:07 PM, thiagomz wrote:

> Karl & Betty Schendel escreveu:
>>
>> On Aug 22, 2008, at 5:43 PM, Oscar Carlés wrote:
>>>
>>> According to mails below, I want to execute trace point DM1314, just
>>> before copying journal files to remote machine.
>>> Is there any known risk to do this?
>>>
>>
>> It's safe enough.
>>
> Karl,
>
> The event "DM1314 trace point" is the same as execute an "alterdb mydb
> -next_jnl_file" ?

No, it's not quite the same. DM1314 forces the archiver to run
even though a consistency point has not been reached (consistency
points and database close are the two main archiver cycle triggers).
The archiver cycle is run normally and no new journal file is
started unless the size guideline has been reached.

The alterdb -next_jnl_file command forces a new journal file to
start. I think it also forces a journaling cycle, like DM1314,
but I'm not 100% sure of that ... I'd have to take a look
at the code.

Karl
 >> Stay informed about: How to Create a Backup Site ? 

Karl & Betty Schendel escreveu:
>
> On Aug 22, 2008, at 5:43 PM, Oscar Carlés wrote:
>
>> Hi all!
>> I am running Ingres 2.6 sp5 on a Tru64 box.
>> My disaster recovery schema, include a periodic copy (about each 20
>> minutes) of production environment journals to another machine file
>> system.
>> According to mails below, I want to execute trace point DM1314, just
>> before copying journal files to remote machine.
>> Is there any known risk to do this?
>>
>
> It's safe enough.
>
> I should have added, in order to ensure that the archive cycle has
> finished, it is a good idea to wait a few seconds after issuing the
> DM1314 trace point (to give the archiver time to notice and wake up),
> and then issue logstat -header commands until ARCHIVE no longer
> shows in the status. It's quite possible that the cycle will
> already be finished, but if you see ARCHIVE in the status then
> the archiver is still doing its thing and you need to wait longer.
>
> Another point, it doesn't matter which database you issue the
> DM1314 against, it applies to the whole installation.
>
> Karl
>
>

Karl,

The event "DM1314 trace point" is the same as execute an "alterdb mydb
-next_jnl_file" ?

--
Regards,

Thiago Zerbinato
Oracle/Ingres DBA
Ribeirao Preto/SP
Brazil
 >> Stay informed about: How to Create a Backup Site ?